Killyp
Aug 7, 05:04 AM
Now now Leoff, no need to be so harsh :)
I think he has a point though. There is no way that you could sue apple based on this. Apple released the Mac, and they call it the Mac now (not the Macintosh). There is a company (I can't remember who) that makes plastic coats called Macs, and yet you don't see those two sueing each other.
If apple did release the MacPro, which seems highly likely, then what is going to be the negative effect on your business? if anything, it will bring in more business as more people will be typing mac-pro.com into their browsers.
I think he has a point though. There is no way that you could sue apple based on this. Apple released the Mac, and they call it the Mac now (not the Macintosh). There is a company (I can't remember who) that makes plastic coats called Macs, and yet you don't see those two sueing each other.
If apple did release the MacPro, which seems highly likely, then what is going to be the negative effect on your business? if anything, it will bring in more business as more people will be typing mac-pro.com into their browsers.
Yebubbleman
Apr 6, 02:20 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)
@yebubbleman
You keep talking about the MBA being "crippled" - how so? What can't it do other than play optical media? Why can't you do "real work" on it?
As for the graphics, I'm under no illusion that it can play games like a mbp let alone gaming PC. And I don't need that. But the current MBA can play some modern games (SC II for example) at decent settings and frames. I wouldnt want to lose the ability to do casual gaming by going to the intel integrated.
A 13" MacBook Pro has a hard drive that can be easily replaced and upgraded (even with an SSD if you so fancy), RAM that can be easily replaced and upgraded, a standard-voltage (read: more powerful) CPU, and yes (love it or hate it) an optical drive, along with a FireWire 800 port, an Ethernet Port, an IR sensor (which granted, isn't the most useful feature out there) and battery life to spare even given the faster speed. And yes, even with a Sandy Bridge MacBook Air, the benefits that a Sandy Bridge 13" MacBook Pro have over it, especially for the price, make it a much better machine. You are grossly limited with a MacBook Air by comparison.
I don't mean to say that with a 27" iMac at home, one couldn't be happily mobile with a 13" MacBook Air if they so desired, I just don't think it has enough going for it to make it worthy of being stand-alone to anyone who isn't either (a) bat-**** crazy about about the MacBook Air or (b) very simple in their computing needs.
I didn't go through all the pages of replies, but in case some one hasn't corrected them yet, the bus speed of the 13" is 1066mhz.
Already covered, but kudos regardless.
@yebubbleman
You keep talking about the MBA being "crippled" - how so? What can't it do other than play optical media? Why can't you do "real work" on it?
As for the graphics, I'm under no illusion that it can play games like a mbp let alone gaming PC. And I don't need that. But the current MBA can play some modern games (SC II for example) at decent settings and frames. I wouldnt want to lose the ability to do casual gaming by going to the intel integrated.
A 13" MacBook Pro has a hard drive that can be easily replaced and upgraded (even with an SSD if you so fancy), RAM that can be easily replaced and upgraded, a standard-voltage (read: more powerful) CPU, and yes (love it or hate it) an optical drive, along with a FireWire 800 port, an Ethernet Port, an IR sensor (which granted, isn't the most useful feature out there) and battery life to spare even given the faster speed. And yes, even with a Sandy Bridge MacBook Air, the benefits that a Sandy Bridge 13" MacBook Pro have over it, especially for the price, make it a much better machine. You are grossly limited with a MacBook Air by comparison.
I don't mean to say that with a 27" iMac at home, one couldn't be happily mobile with a 13" MacBook Air if they so desired, I just don't think it has enough going for it to make it worthy of being stand-alone to anyone who isn't either (a) bat-**** crazy about about the MacBook Air or (b) very simple in their computing needs.
I didn't go through all the pages of replies, but in case some one hasn't corrected them yet, the bus speed of the 13" is 1066mhz.
Already covered, but kudos regardless.
demeni
Mar 31, 04:04 PM
Having had an Android phone I can say that the experience was mixed at best. It has potential to compete with IOS but the openess is hurting the overall customer experience not so much because of Google but more because of the attitude and the thoughtlessness of the manufacturers, and in the UK, the network providers.
You couldn't update the software because the manufacturer had to first add its layers to Android and then the network had to cripple it with their rubbish so you couldn't forget who you had a contract with. So updates were virtually non existent unless you rooted and the manufacturer was doing its best to make sure you couldn't do that.
What a farce! And now they want to impose this on people buying tablets!
Android is doomed because of the same problems that haunt Windoze - no control over the hardware / software marriage so nothing will ever be robust enough. It'll never 'Just work'. I do still like some Google stuff (search engine / email) and Apple needs the threat of competition. They need to concentrate on their hardware / software efforts and forget about an open Mobile OS.
You couldn't update the software because the manufacturer had to first add its layers to Android and then the network had to cripple it with their rubbish so you couldn't forget who you had a contract with. So updates were virtually non existent unless you rooted and the manufacturer was doing its best to make sure you couldn't do that.
What a farce! And now they want to impose this on people buying tablets!
Android is doomed because of the same problems that haunt Windoze - no control over the hardware / software marriage so nothing will ever be robust enough. It'll never 'Just work'. I do still like some Google stuff (search engine / email) and Apple needs the threat of competition. They need to concentrate on their hardware / software efforts and forget about an open Mobile OS.
Dan==
Jul 27, 05:02 PM
Another way Apple could do it is just to elongate the Mini's case to make it just as svelte vertically, only slightly wider. Could you take a run at that one Dan==? ;)
I could take a stab to make a Mini double-wide :-). (Perhaps not til the weekend tho to make it pretty.)
It would work well in home entertainment setups, but not so much on the desktop, I think. I'd expect a deeper, rather than wider, chassis would be preferred.
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I could take a stab to make a Mini double-wide :-). (Perhaps not til the weekend tho to make it pretty.)
It would work well in home entertainment setups, but not so much on the desktop, I think. I'd expect a deeper, rather than wider, chassis would be preferred.
Silentwave
Jul 14, 05:34 PM
It's worth noting that Intel has shipped P4-series chips at 3.4GHz. But the new chips (Woodcrest and Conroe) aren't being sold at speeds above 3GHz.
Pay attention. The answer is "sooner than you think".
Quarter 4 this year will see the X6900 conroe extreme at 3.2GHz.
So when will we start seeing 8 chips in a computer? Perhaps this will become the new measurement...not processor speeds, but the number of processors (or cores).
There have already been technology briefings from Intel that talk about 4-core chips in early and 32-core chips by 2010. Similar offerings are expected from AMD.
And the Xeon-MP series processors (which will, of course, eventually get all this tech) are designed with 8-way SMP in mind. A theoretical Xeon-MP based on this 32-core tech would produce a system with 256 cores. Of course, it is doubtful that anything other than a large server would be able to take proper advantage of this, so I wouldn't ever expect to find one on a desktop.
8 core should be out sometime between end of 2006 and beginning of 2007 with the quad core Clovertown processors (based on woodcrest) available in dual chip configurations. And it'll only get better from there.
Which reminds me, though slightly OT... this is a good reason why iMac may well get Conroe now or perhaps get Merom now but transition to a desktop chip by the time Santa Rosa comes out. The new chipset/socket means new logic board, and by the time that comes out the Kenstfield quad core chips on the consumer desktop end will start arriving. I don't yet know how far kentsfield will be scaling either up or down as far as clock speed/heat, but if quad core starts moving into the consumer dekstop market, they will need a very powerful processor: either Conroe or Kentsfield.
Pay attention. The answer is "sooner than you think".
Quarter 4 this year will see the X6900 conroe extreme at 3.2GHz.
So when will we start seeing 8 chips in a computer? Perhaps this will become the new measurement...not processor speeds, but the number of processors (or cores).
There have already been technology briefings from Intel that talk about 4-core chips in early and 32-core chips by 2010. Similar offerings are expected from AMD.
And the Xeon-MP series processors (which will, of course, eventually get all this tech) are designed with 8-way SMP in mind. A theoretical Xeon-MP based on this 32-core tech would produce a system with 256 cores. Of course, it is doubtful that anything other than a large server would be able to take proper advantage of this, so I wouldn't ever expect to find one on a desktop.
8 core should be out sometime between end of 2006 and beginning of 2007 with the quad core Clovertown processors (based on woodcrest) available in dual chip configurations. And it'll only get better from there.
Which reminds me, though slightly OT... this is a good reason why iMac may well get Conroe now or perhaps get Merom now but transition to a desktop chip by the time Santa Rosa comes out. The new chipset/socket means new logic board, and by the time that comes out the Kenstfield quad core chips on the consumer desktop end will start arriving. I don't yet know how far kentsfield will be scaling either up or down as far as clock speed/heat, but if quad core starts moving into the consumer dekstop market, they will need a very powerful processor: either Conroe or Kentsfield.
Eidorian
Sep 13, 08:17 AM
DAMN :eek:
so 2-3 years from now are people going to be asking "why am I stuck with dual core in my macbook?" oh yeah I'll mostly be surfing the web and maybe editing a photo once and a while" :rolleyes:Fixed
so 2-3 years from now are people going to be asking "why am I stuck with dual core in my macbook?" oh yeah I'll mostly be surfing the web and maybe editing a photo once and a while" :rolleyes:Fixed
emotion
Jul 20, 02:31 PM
I'm not sure either and I shouldn't have made the assumption. I know Ableton and Cubase do as I've used both and I'm now an avid Ableton user. I'd imagine Logic will take full advantage sometime soon since it's now one of Apple's pro applications. It certainly makes sense considering how bogged down your system gets once you load enough virtual instruments and effects.
I'm a Live user too. I wouldn't assume the forthcoming Live 6 supports more than two cores though.
I agree about Logic and the multi core support. They should have done this for the G5 quads though (I hear the quad owners scream :) ).
Edit: apparently Live 6 supports more than two cores/procs
I'm a Live user too. I wouldn't assume the forthcoming Live 6 supports more than two cores though.
I agree about Logic and the multi core support. They should have done this for the G5 quads though (I hear the quad owners scream :) ).
Edit: apparently Live 6 supports more than two cores/procs
tortoise
Aug 23, 03:04 PM
Do you have a reference showing that this translates to better performance in real-world application tests in a head to head competition?
Not handy, since a lot of this happened on mailing lists.
The short version is that the memory performance scales in a very sub-linear fashion as a function of the number of cores being used, whereas Opteron scalability is almost linear up to a large number of cores. The good news is that for single dual-core processors the memory performance is on par with dual-core Opterons and their in-cache performance can be better. The bad news is that this performance does not hold as you scale cores in a system. So for some applications (e.g. those that live mostly in cache) the Woodcrest processors will be mildly faster than Opterons, but for most the performance is about even in real app benchmarks.
I've seen fairly comprehensive benchmarks for both databases and scientific computing applications, both of which thoroughly exercise the memory subsystem. Even though a single Intel core theoretically has more bandwidth, the high latency means that the real bandwidth is about the same as the slower Opterons (which have real bandwidth that approaches theoretical) and the cross-sectional bandwidth of Opterons when you get up to 4 cores and higher is much higher since the scaling is almost linear with the number of cores. For Intel, I think it was the case that a bigger cache was a cheaper design choice than a truly scalable memory subsystem. As a result, they will have different competencies. Some types of floating point codes should run very well on Intel.
Not handy, since a lot of this happened on mailing lists.
The short version is that the memory performance scales in a very sub-linear fashion as a function of the number of cores being used, whereas Opteron scalability is almost linear up to a large number of cores. The good news is that for single dual-core processors the memory performance is on par with dual-core Opterons and their in-cache performance can be better. The bad news is that this performance does not hold as you scale cores in a system. So for some applications (e.g. those that live mostly in cache) the Woodcrest processors will be mildly faster than Opterons, but for most the performance is about even in real app benchmarks.
I've seen fairly comprehensive benchmarks for both databases and scientific computing applications, both of which thoroughly exercise the memory subsystem. Even though a single Intel core theoretically has more bandwidth, the high latency means that the real bandwidth is about the same as the slower Opterons (which have real bandwidth that approaches theoretical) and the cross-sectional bandwidth of Opterons when you get up to 4 cores and higher is much higher since the scaling is almost linear with the number of cores. For Intel, I think it was the case that a bigger cache was a cheaper design choice than a truly scalable memory subsystem. As a result, they will have different competencies. Some types of floating point codes should run very well on Intel.
bedifferent
Apr 10, 10:51 PM
Whether you think it's an issue or not is subjective. The guy I was replying to was implying that a different person worked on iMovie 08 and that same person was also behind the new Final Cut when in reality the lead architect has stayed the same throughout.
Oh I know, I was commenting on that, not you.
Oh I know, I was commenting on that, not you.
Cheerwino
Apr 19, 08:02 PM
Me, Urg, first caveman to make rock round! Michelin and Firestone steal idea!
depperl
Aug 7, 04:30 PM
if leopard is not enough here's some more new features: Leopard-Server (http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/leopard/)
i think leopard-server is going to have some cool things for the enterprise-market :rolleyes:
i think leopard-server is going to have some cool things for the enterprise-market :rolleyes:
Benjamins
Mar 31, 03:34 PM
I was just pointing out that the code is still open, even if some have to wait longer than has been the case. I'm not saying everything is golden and Google are a paragon of virtue, this is certainly a bit of a sly move on their part.
I cannot help shake the feeling that some of the vitriol from certain people is the fear that a more coherent and unified Android ecosystem is an even bigger threat to the iOS platform.
not really. It's just reaction to extreme hypocrisy.
Maybe Google needs to back off from using the word "open" like they own it.
I cannot help shake the feeling that some of the vitriol from certain people is the fear that a more coherent and unified Android ecosystem is an even bigger threat to the iOS platform.
not really. It's just reaction to extreme hypocrisy.
Maybe Google needs to back off from using the word "open" like they own it.
mikeapple
Apr 6, 10:44 AM
Can we also expect, ?
-Backlit keys
-Brighter display, colors, and IPS
-HD Facetime
All would be greatly appreciated along with the Sandy Bridge
fingers crossed for no Over-heating issues, you know how those turbo speeds can get and how they've treated the 13'' Pros
-Backlit keys
-Brighter display, colors, and IPS
-HD Facetime
All would be greatly appreciated along with the Sandy Bridge
fingers crossed for no Over-heating issues, you know how those turbo speeds can get and how they've treated the 13'' Pros
macenforcer
Aug 17, 12:08 PM
Wow, I'm really surprised by those photoshop tests. When those go universal I'm sure my jaw will drop
It will be exactly 25% faster in UB photoshop. How do I know? I tested in photoshop 7.01 in OS X and in XP on the mac pro. XP test was 25% faster. There you go.
It will be exactly 25% faster in UB photoshop. How do I know? I tested in photoshop 7.01 in OS X and in XP on the mac pro. XP test was 25% faster. There you go.
Yanwoo
Aug 6, 02:00 PM
Was just trying to price out an IMac on the Apple store and the option of upgrade the keyboard/mouse to a wireless version was gone??
Something new in the offing to be announced tomorrow perhaps??
Something new in the offing to be announced tomorrow perhaps??
hyperpasta
Aug 5, 04:50 PM
I'd be willing to bet that there will be at least two major surprises on Monday, one to do with some fab capability in Leopard that Apple has succeeded in keeping us in the dark about, and one fab piece of consumer hardware. By the second, I don't mean something we all expect like Mac Pros or Meroms in the MBPs. I mean something radical. Something that will make some real headlines.
They can't do things according to their old schedules now that they are on with Intel. Get used to new patterns. Apple is coming out of the shadows now, with sales and mindshare building at a strong pace. Waiting until January to annouce big new consumer pushes because WWDC is for developers won't do anymore. Welcome to the new Apple.
Think big. It's okay. Apple won't disappoint.
I will remember you said that when the announcements are dissapointing :)
Maybe they will and maybe they won't. But in the mean time, it's best to be conservative and hope we might be surprised.
They can't do things according to their old schedules now that they are on with Intel. Get used to new patterns. Apple is coming out of the shadows now, with sales and mindshare building at a strong pace. Waiting until January to annouce big new consumer pushes because WWDC is for developers won't do anymore. Welcome to the new Apple.
Think big. It's okay. Apple won't disappoint.
I will remember you said that when the announcements are dissapointing :)
Maybe they will and maybe they won't. But in the mean time, it's best to be conservative and hope we might be surprised.
Multimedia
Sep 13, 11:20 PM
Well if the content is crap, who cares to watch? Content of TV is more important to me. I'd rather see a fascinating news show or program over rabbit ears than watch the Today Show in HD.
This wasn't clear the first time. You sounded like a crazed American Idol fan with your original post. And HD broadcasts are nothing new...This is NEW because it is on a 3 hour weekday morning telecast. That makes it NEW and NEWS. Nothing about content. I NEVER watch American Idol. You are judgemental.
Millions watch that crap so your opinion of it is irrelevant to the market forces.
This wasn't clear the first time. You sounded like a crazed American Idol fan with your original post. And HD broadcasts are nothing new...This is NEW because it is on a 3 hour weekday morning telecast. That makes it NEW and NEWS. Nothing about content. I NEVER watch American Idol. You are judgemental.
Millions watch that crap so your opinion of it is irrelevant to the market forces.
dscuber9000
Apr 27, 02:57 PM
The birthers have moved on to say that because Obama "doesn't have allegiance to America" or some BS like that, he is now no longer a natural born citizen (http://www.birthers.org/). :rolleyes:
moogs
Sep 13, 10:57 AM
Would it be smart to wait for these 8 core mac pros or are they still a long ways away?
joemama
Nov 28, 07:54 PM
Jobs should walk into negotiations with the attitude of - "We would like more of a royalty for every song sold because if we didn't sell them on iTunes, people would simply download them illegally."
"...And if you don't adhere to this, we will stop selling Universal music and this is exactly what will happen."
Apple may be out 20 cents a song, but people will still buy iPods.
Think how much Universal will be losing.
"...And if you don't adhere to this, we will stop selling Universal music and this is exactly what will happen."
Apple may be out 20 cents a song, but people will still buy iPods.
Think how much Universal will be losing.
jwp1964
Sep 18, 11:10 PM
Please Apple put out a new 12" or smaller notebook and I'm in! My iBook is about to be 3 years old and it's time to upgrade.:D
milo
Aug 18, 03:33 PM
So what apps will saturate all four cores or at least get close to it, on either a quad G5 or quad xeon? Are there any?
Are there any apps that really take advantage of four cores on their own?
Are there any apps that really take advantage of four cores on their own?
DeathChill
Aug 7, 10:18 PM
Running the preview now... some nice developer level stuff that I cannot ebelish on however beyond what was talked about in the keynote.
The new Core Animation stuff looks simple yet powerful and will increase the visual effects and feedback that application can do with only minor work on their part.
Also new Xcode Tool capabilities are well... great to have (need to review what is available publicly before I can comment more).
Next spring Apple will have a good answer to Vista with little disruption to end users and developers (unlike Vista).
So it's fair to say that developers have received their copy of Leopard?
The new Core Animation stuff looks simple yet powerful and will increase the visual effects and feedback that application can do with only minor work on their part.
Also new Xcode Tool capabilities are well... great to have (need to review what is available publicly before I can comment more).
Next spring Apple will have a good answer to Vista with little disruption to end users and developers (unlike Vista).
So it's fair to say that developers have received their copy of Leopard?
slackpacker
Apr 25, 02:25 PM
Honestly If this does not bug you it should Apple along with Law enforcement have know about this they have been using devices to read this info and use it against the Phones owners if the info proves useful. Good I totally support a lawsuit Apple should be embarrassed and ashamed this is a big deal. Nothing should trace where your going and keep a record. This info can also be used by criminals but the true criminal here is Law Enforcement since they knew about this info and used it against suspects.
Please take note suspects are not criminals they are you and me and getting pulled over or involved with the Police. It can happen to anyone for many reasons other than causing a crime.
Apple has just brought us the closest we have EVER been to 1984.
Protect our Freedoms
Please take note suspects are not criminals they are you and me and getting pulled over or involved with the Police. It can happen to anyone for many reasons other than causing a crime.
Apple has just brought us the closest we have EVER been to 1984.
Protect our Freedoms
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